eBay Seller’s comments to “Your Baby’s Ugly”


By Jack D. Young

Proxiblog asked me to consider doing an article on “how eBay sellers react when we report their coins as fake? I know some take down the lots. Others don’t.” I was intrigued by the thought and decided to write the following!

When I explain a Bay listing is counterfeit sellers can react a number of ways–in disbelieve, argumentatively (Grandpa owned it), accepting and thankful, combative (I’ll meet you in a parking lot dude…) or just “crickets.”. In my experience the larger the seller the higher the probability of crickets.

So, moving on I will not lower our standards here and report the combative ones but several of recent experiences I have had of the other types of reactions.

Let’s start with an interesting Trade dollar. This example just caught my eye, and the images led me to believe the coin was not genuine. The images in the listing were not definitive, and I asked the seller for better ones. He agreed and that was all it took! The common reverse used for a family of fakes I nicknamed the “notched R.” I wrote an article on these published in a recent LSCC Gobrecht Journal. I actually own one returned to a seller by NGC as counterfeit, so well versed on these:

eBay recent listing

So, I asked the seller about the coin and that I had concerns about its authenticity. He responded that he looked up the cert and the “PCGS verification”.

I responded there were no images on the on-line cert, so no help there. I included images from my coin and article and that I was sure it was counterfeit.

And he responded with a thank you and that he would remove the listing immediately, which he did!


So, a win, except who knows were the coin ends up, as he responded he is taking it back to the previous seller… And then another listing and another message:


Seller actually had two bad Morgans in fake PCGS slabs listed:


As he stated in his message, he ended both!

So, two with likely the best results we could hope for. And then this one:


Another counterfeit coin in a counterfeit slab, this one gets a little complicated if you really evaluate this one properly.

First, the obverse barcode scans as a 1989 $10 gold eagle. Then, the images of the genuine example for the cert# on the PCGS site are a completely different coin. And third, the interesting twist for this one is fakes of this type typically have a reverse QR code that scans to the genuine PCGS cert site in CHINA (cnpcgs), BUT this one scans to pcgseurope! A separate article on this one in the works.


So, I notified the owner, but he is in denial, and his response and then silence:


Silent until this😎:


So, good luck to all eBayer’s with that one!

And now the crickets; my friend Jack Riley posted the next example in our Face Book group:


Pretty bad counterfeit in a counterfeit slab again, the surprise was it is a large well respected Bay coin seller. Several of us sent messages to the seller with no response, so I took a risk and purchased it with the intention of asking for a return for it being a counterfeit.

Refund granted, never heard from the seller…


And eBay removed the listing:


Shortly thereafter my eBay account was permanently suspended.

If you like posts like this, you can read more articles on counterfeit coins by Jack D. Young, Jack Riley and Michael Bugeja at this URL. Also, please subscribe so you can be informed whenever there is a new article or column.

Proxiblog also has thousands of followers on Facebook Coin Groups, YouTube and other venues. To get the latest discussion and commentary, be sure to friend us by clicking here.

You can find more information about errors and varieties as well as buying and bidding on coins in Coin News Updated: The Essential Guide to Online Bidding. Please consider purchasing the work for yourself or a friend, as it underwrites this hobbyist website. Thank you.

Identifying Contemporary Circulating Counterfeits


By John Lorenza

Increasingly, hobbyists are relying on artificial intelligence to identify fake coins exported by the hundreds of thousands by manufacturing facilities in China. Too often, however, AI is wrong, relying on false training data from the internet.

Machine and numismatist analyze fake coins according to different protocols. AI relies on images scraped from the internet. Its learning models rely on high-resolution images so that it can analyze subtle flaws in surface detail, texture, and edge features that are difficult to replicate.

But what if high-resolution images are not available or, in worst case scenarios, doctored via photography software?

This is why human intelligence trumps machine intelligence. Before we proceed two definitions are in order. What is a Contemporary Circulating Counterfeit and what is a Modern Forgery?

A Contemporary Circulating Counterfeit (CCC) is a coin that was illegally produced during the same period as the genuine issue and entered everyday commerce alongside authentic coins. CCCs were often made to mimic official currency closely enough to pass in trade, and they typically show signs of real circulation, regional wear patterns, and period-appropriate alloy substitutions. Many CCCs are now valued by collectors for their historical context, diagnostic quirks, and the insight they offer into economic conditions and minting practices of their time.

In contrast, a Modern Chinese Forgery refers to a deceptive replica produced in recent decades—often using CNC machining or digital dies—with the intent to defraud collectors or simulate numismatic value. These forgeries frequently match regal weight and dimensions too precisely, use non-period alloys like Fe/Ni or German Silver, and may feature fantasy legends, artificial toning, or blank or overly sharp edges. Unlike CCCs, they show no genuine circulation history and are typically absent from community catalogs like CCC–Good Ones.

I am cataloging here for Proxiblog sophisticated techniques that counterfeit detectives use in identifying fakes.

Here are the methods.

For Historical Contemporary Circulating Counterfeits

1. Edge diagnostics (third side) show hand-cut, irregular milling, or worn reeding consistent with circulation and non-regal production.


2. Weight slightly off regal specs, often 5–10% under, but consistent across known examples (families of fakes) and plausible for the era of counterfeiting.

3. Surface silvering or wash may be present on brass or copper cores, often worn through naturally with age.

4. Alloy matches period substitutions: wartime brass, nickel-silver, or low-grade steel confirmed via X-ray fluorescence (XRF), a “non-destructive analytical technique used to determine the exact elemental composition of a coin’s metal.

5. Die style mimics contemporary minting: hand-cut or worn dies with plausible irregularities and regional quirks.

6. Legends match genuine types with subtle errors: spacing, font, or punctuation off — verified against Stacks Bowers and Heritage Auctions.


7. Strike pressure and rim formation match era: weak or uneven, often with off-center or double strikes.

8. Known provenance or regional clustering: tied to specific towns, wartime zones, or trade routes; often supported by field card documentation.

9. Diagnostic die markers (e.g., die cracks, repunched dates, filled letters) shared across multiple specimens.


10. Natural toning and patina: sulfur-induced browns, thin-film interference, or oxidation consistent with age and storage.

For Modern Chinese Forgeries:

1. Bad Chinese Modern Forgery Non-CCC deceptive fantasy, often manufactured by Computer Numerical Control (CNC), computer-controlled lathes or milling machines to create the dies used to produce fake coins that are chemically aged.

2. Edge shows CNC reeding, lathe chatter, or repeating patterns, often too perfect or mechanically uniform. (Sometimes edges are blank or show no reeding at all, especially on fake silver types — a major red flag.)

3. Edge wear often absent or artificially applied, lacking the smooth abrasion of genuine circulation.

4. Weight matches regal specs too precisely, suggesting CNC replication or fantasy intent.

5. Use of iron-nickel alloys, Fe/Ni or “German Silver” common in fake “silver” types — confirmed via XRF as non-period and non-circulating.


6. Surface silvering often artificial, with flaking, bubbling, or chemical residue under magnification.

7. Die style overly sharp or digital, lacking the nuance of hand-cut or worn dies; often shows mirrored fields or laser-like precision.

8. Legends include anachronisms, fantasy elements, or mismatched fonts, often failing comparison with Stacks Bowers and Heritage Auctions.


9. Strike pressure and die alignment too perfect, lacking flaws of hand-struck CCCs; often shows full rim and centered strike.

10. Absence from CCC analyzed by community consensus, often flagged as deceptive or fantasy.

To be sure, these are red flags that veteran hobbyists use and learn from. But it is never too early for beginning and intermedia collectors to scroll through these red flags, look up terms that you do not fully understand, and continue learning how to identify counterfeits.

For beginning collectors

Here are simple techniques:

  1. If you are ready to bid hundreds of dollars on a coin, resist buying a raw one and shop for one holdered by PCGS, NGC, ANACS and CAC.
  2. Be especially careful when purchasing raw coins from eBay and other online venues. TAI bots cannot detect counterfeits, so you are on your own.
  3. Make sure the seller takes returns and has good reviews. Also, the number of positive reviews is a good indicator. If someone has 0 sales or even fewer than 100, do not take a chance.
  4. Weigh the coin and go to PCGS CoinFacts for the date and mintmark, checking your coin against weights and dimensions.
  5. Read this article about detecting counterfeits.

If you like posts like this, you can read more articles on counterfeit coins by Jack Riley, Jack D. Young and Michael Bugeja at this URL. Also, please subscribe so you can get our weekly newsletter and be informed whenever there is a new article or column.

Proxiblog also has thousands of followers on Facebook Coin Groups, YouTube and other social media. To get the latest discussion and commentary, be sure to friend us by clicking here.

You can find more information about errors and varieties as well as buying and bidding on coins in Coin News Updated: The Essential Guide to Online Bidding. Please consider purchasing the work for yourself or a friend, as it underwrites this hobbyist website. Thank you.